December 12, 2019, 06:21:55 PM

Author Topic: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?  (Read 19780 times)

Offline H-BOT

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IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« on: October 21, 2007, 12:49:25 PM »
   After reading a couple of times the EVE-Online’s END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA) I realized that H-BOT isn’t violating any parts of it and therefore IS LEGAL 100% as long as it is used within the restrictions of EVE’s EULA.
 
   What EULA says about proper online behavior:

7. CONDUCT
A. Specifically Restricted Conduct
Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game:
 1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
 2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
 3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
 4. You may not use the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to bypass the System login architecture or create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.
 5. You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale.

B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.

C. Compliance with Rules of Conduct
You agree to observe and abide by the Rules of Conduct as may be amended by CCP from time to time. The current version of the Rules of Conduct may be viewed at http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/terms.asp, and are incorporated in the EULA by reference.


   Take a good look at third statement of A part of CONDUCT article: You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

  Conclusion: As long as using H-BOT doesn’t accelerate the rate at witch you acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status compared to ordinary Game play its consistent to EVE-Online’s EULA and as such is 100% legal!
   Buy writing “IS LEGAL 100% as long as it is used within the restrictions of EVE’s EULA.” On the second line of this topic, what I mean is that you should only use H-Bot for strictly In-Game profit and not making real money buy selling isk, items, characters etc. As described in part B of EULA Conduct article.

   If anyone has different opinion on that subject and believes that I misinterpret EVE’s EULA, please reply here with substantiated thoughts!


EDIT 09/10/2009 : A user of H-Bot Hunter was banned by CCP so this meens they have a different opinion. How it was detected ? http://reboot.gr/index.php?topic=918
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 05:59:00 AM by H-BOT »

Offline Slackjaw

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 05:37:35 AM »
I guess you could argue if you ever use H-BOT while afk that is accelerating your iskies. Then again I think its even against the EULA to idle AFK?

Offline godsgopher

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 05:26:21 AM »
While I defiantly think you have a solid point, It would never the less be up to CCP as to whether H-bot is violating the intended "spirit" of play.

Offline oli123

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 01:25:20 PM »
I guess you could argue if you ever use H-BOT while afk that is accelerating your iskies. Then again I think its even against the EULA to idle AFK?

by that you could also say that afk mining in an ity 5 is violating the eula..

Offline Lavsi

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 09:58:41 PM »
The problem is what if someone begin petitioning on botting?

While roaming I saw several players hunting using H-bot and I typed in local just for fun "bot detected" :)
So the one of them convoed me and asked not to reveal him and gave even some money.
SO, if someone write a petition, and GM will monitor the character, hunting using h-bot?


Offline czakalaka

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 12:49:51 PM »

So the one of them convoed me and asked not to reveal him and gave even some money.


What fagg admits ingame he is using a bot ... and while not beeing afk ?! :) LOL. I would petition him and add the chatlogs to the petition. This faggot should be banned for extreme stupidity.  "If they grab your hand while you are pickpocketing you say it is not your hand!" ALWAYS!

GM can monitor your character untill he dies of boredom ... he wont notice nothing out of the oridinary if you setup the bot ok. Only people who use hbot 23 hours a day have something to worry about as this is something a GM can call : "strange behaviour"

Offline Millennium.Mike

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 02:39:31 PM »
Everyone - especially the beginners - should keep in mind: everything you type in EVE will be logged and can be viewed by a GM.

Generally: CCP will not allow to use Macro Apps like this. Programming and selling H-BOT is legal. But not the use.
I am 99% sure that this will be CCP's opinion to protect their ultimate right to keep 100% control.
The "acceleration" in this case is that you invest zero time ingame while the Macro App collects ISK for you.
Therefore it's 100% acceleration :-P But that's my personal interpretation.

However you interpret their EULA. Finally CCP can decide what they do with your account. You are wrong, CCP is right. Simple said.
If you disagree because you believe they are wrong you need to sue them and let your professional lawyer decide and fight.
Even if they would lose that case they simply would change the EULA.

Overall most of the costumer are not aware that everything ingame: char name, bio, ships, mods, all other assets, earned ISK, even your chat logs or bio etc. IS PROPERTY OF CCP.
A lot of player still believe what they create ingame is their property because they pay 10 bucks / months. They are wrong. You just pay for the right to use. Nothing else.

So if CCP can prove that we use H-BOT we should not whine any minute that they eventually ban and terminate ALL accounts. Not the one where H-BOT is used.
Keep that risk also in mind.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 02:42:19 PM by Millennium.Mike »

Offline Millennium.Mike

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 02:57:18 PM »
The main reason why I EVENTUALLY will take the risk and EVENTUALLY use H-BOT is that I love the game, I do mainly PvP what is still time consuming and depending on your success: ISK consuming BUT I don't have the time to earn ISK ingame. The game is highly addictive. I have personally not the time to earn ISK ingame except with what the ships drop and some simple trade methods. That's not enough. Investing in GTC is at the first glance ok but due to the fact that a lot of players are addicted to the game CCP makes profit by this.

I know that now a lot of people would flame me. But addiction is a fact and a new problem since MMORPG's are available.

Overall the game can fuck up a lot of players life due to the addictive concept of the ingame social system and the amazing complexity.
It can be a second virtual life indeed. And it's hard to stop it.
I can see the heavy amount of the great work by CCP. I can understand why they need to make strong rules.
But finally they give a shit if someone is getting addicted and out of control in rl playing EVE 23/7 while CCP makes profit by this.
MMORPG developers are some kind of modern drug dealer. Not for everyone. But it's a fact that these games work similar like other kind of drugs.

This is my personal pov. Flame me for this. I am playing for years. And yes: I am addicted to it while I have to manage a very intense rl.
We have to understand that not every player of such a game is adult enough to figure this out.
The game is balanced to keep you ingame extremely if you can't make ISK by GTC. GTC selling is fine but makes the game very expensive when you do just PvP.

I personally met not a lot player ingame just looking at EVE like a PS3 game for a bit fun. Overall I just know hardcore player beeing online all the time. Even when afk.
Playing at work if they can. Suffering by sleep deprivation is not a rare problem :-)

From all this pov H-BOT is one valid alternative - WITH THE RISK TO LOSE ALL YOUR ACCOUNTS - to make ISK ingame easier instead of wasting hours of rl time just staring at rats, enjoy the real social life meanwhile and have some fun with PvP later.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 03:43:23 PM by Millennium.Mike »

Offline Human_Target

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 06:04:57 PM »
EVE is designed to be played for way longer (year-wise) than pure dikuMUD derivatives like WoW. Generally, you learn how to manage your EVE 'addiction' with time.

Besides, it's not really an addiction - it's way too easy quit it. Old, non-diku MUDs were extremely immersive and had much better social interaction than EVE could ever aspire to, and you could still quit those at whim.


And there is another interesting caveat - you can make ISK effectively (without botting!) by having more accounts. Things that are normally very boring become quite challenging and profitable, when done on 5 accounts simultaneously.

Offline yankeegunner

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 01:26:02 AM »
Everyone - especially the beginners - should keep in mind: everything you type in EVE will be logged and can be viewed by a GM.

[[snippage]]
So if CCP can prove that we use H-BOT we should not whine any minute that they eventually ban and terminate ALL accounts. Not the one where H-BOT is used.
Keep that risk also in mind.

QFT - whether you like it or not - CCP will decide.  What they decide is effectively final (imho) because most people won't sue.  I haven't bought H-bot yet...  but it is tempting as hell....   :D

Offline harkonnen

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 10:13:06 PM »
Besides, it's not really an addiction - it's way too easy quit it. Old, non-diku MUDs were extremely immersive and had much better social interaction than EVE could ever aspire to, and you could still quit those at whim.

That remmeberd me of the golden mud days... I played NannyMUD for years (10 or so)... What mud have you played?

Offline Fling1992

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2011, 04:42:58 AM »
Well spotted, so when I get banned I can quote that and state that I do not make isk at an accelerated rate, I just make it all day long the same rate a human can :p

Offline lowsecscrub

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 07:37:43 AM »
So a few of my accounts were banned the other day, one of them was my botting account.

Got the same generic message "EULA/TOS Violation: Macro Use"
I know most people just wait it out and continue on their business but I am not like that.

I read the EULA and TOS (terms of service) and the only line that relates to the situation is:
"You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."

Now I know nothing about law to be truthful, but I do have some common sense, so I broke down this line.
So here is the line in doubt:
"You may not use macros (h-bot) that facilitate acquisition of currency at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."

Now, If I manually rat and do every action myself, i can make about 20mil isk/tick or 60mil an hour on average in a tengu. Running a H-bot, it only makes about 10-15mil/tick or 30-45mil/hour on average.
dictionary.com's meaning of Accelerate: to cause faster or greater activity, development, progress, advancement, etc., in: to accelerate economic growth. OR "to hasten the occurrence of"

If you went to school and learned how to do simple math, you would find that 30-45mil an hour is LESS than 60 mil an hour, and therefore is not "accelerated".

So seeing as using h-bot clearly does accelerate the rate at which you gain items, or in this case isk, compared to the ordinary manual ratting gameplay, there is clearly NO violation of the EULA.

I have made this statement in my petition only to get back the generic "you were found botting" mail quoting that exact EULA line, so i responded promptly and am now awaiting to see if they have any common sense.

This could potentially be a big thing for CCP as any people who have been banned in the past for the same reason technically needs to be unbanned and penalties dropped as there actually is no legal violation.

The only circumstance I can see where it would violate the EULA is if someone is multiboxing say 10 mining or ratting accounts which manually would be dificult to manage all at once making sure they all run as efficently as someone using their full concentration on 1 ratting or mining account. Then it would actually be accelerated compared to the human ability to micromanage all the accounts at once.

Other than that, I think the EULA is flawed and CCP needs to firstly stop banning people and imposing penalties ILLEGALLY and maybe look at changing their EULA and TOS so that they actually have grounds to ban people if they want to continue.

I am still awaiting a response from CCP but I am prepared to escalate this as far as I can go, not just because im bitter about some accounts being banned, but because they have taken away my favourite game for 2 weeks and cost me around $40 USD in subscription time on the basis of a flawed EULA and TOS.

Anything else you think I need to add? anything I am missing or that can help me in the case?




Offline Cabbage

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Re: IS H-BOT LEGAL AND CONSISTENT TO EVE's EULA?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 02:57:17 PM »
You do realise there is nothing legal within the EULA, right?
It's simply an agreement between you, the player, and ccp, the provider. It's nothing more. It's you saying you agree to play the game by their rules.

If it were a legal matter, your consent would need counter signing, and any breeches can lead to.criminal proceedings.

No matter the wording, h bot, and any other macro us against gameplay rules. Use at your own risk.